OK I'm officially scared.

"Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord." (ningaboss)
06/01/2016 at 21:56 • Filed to: None

Of anyone who happens to be a professor. My cousin is going to ucla next year too :(.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

DISCUSSION (21)

jkm7680 > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord.
06/01/2016 at 22:00

Worlds a fucked up place, it’s nothing more than random, senseless violence. Can’t live in fear though.

yamahog > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord.
06/01/2016 at 22:00

My sister is a freshman at UCLA. She was on lockdown in a bathroom with 30 other people until the SWAT sweep could clear it, but she is OK. She was already planning to transfer and this is a horrible, horrible final straw.

Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. > jkm7680
06/01/2016 at 22:07

What do people have against professors I here these stories of them being killed way too often

jkm7680 > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord.
06/01/2016 at 22:09

No idea, doesn’t make an ounce of sense.

Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. > yamahog
06/01/2016 at 22:11

If my cousin says no because of this I will try to convince him to stay for 2 reasons one ucla is a very good school and two after this incident the school would be more safe then ever.

pjhusa > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord.
06/01/2016 at 22:17

Yeah, I think it'd be a good choice to still go.

pjhusa > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord.
06/01/2016 at 22:18

What frustrates me is that there’s been a barrage of posts by really right-winged conservatives pointing fingers at the “gun-free” zones, which really strikes me as inconsiderate. What has happened happened! Our thoughts should be with the victims of this incident.

Sneaky Pete > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord.
06/01/2016 at 22:19

You’re scared of professors? Why, he was the victim? I also don’t understand what this has to do with your cousin going to UCLA. This professor was obviously targeted. Any psychopath could flip and kill people anywhere, it has absolutely zero to do with UCLA, which is a fantastic school.

Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. > Sneaky Pete
06/01/2016 at 22:22

Maybe I wrote it wrong but it seems to me that a lot of professors are being targeted now a days I didn't say I was scared of them just scared what might happen to some of them.

Under_Score > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord.
06/01/2016 at 22:24

There were students blocking the door at the Milo Yiannopoulos speech yesterday because they were “triggered” by him. UCLA is already a messed up place; it’s unfortunate that this event happened, too.

Sneaky Pete > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord.
06/01/2016 at 22:25

Ah, I get what you’re saying now.

Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. > pjhusa
06/01/2016 at 22:25

I know this yet of I’m sick and tired of these things happening. Now is the time To mourn but tommorow America gets another chance to fix this problem so it doesn’t ever happen again.

Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord. > pjhusa
06/01/2016 at 22:33

Also gun free zones are a good thing.

pjhusa > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord.
06/01/2016 at 22:40

qbeezy > Panther Brown Tdi Volvo Shooting Brake Manual Miata RWD Wagon Stole HondaBro's Accord.
06/02/2016 at 00:04

Scary times we live in. Most of this violence happened away from places of influence like low income neighborhoods. We’re not as safe as we think we are. Anywhere.

190octane > qbeezy
06/02/2016 at 03:35

http://www.iii.org/fact-statistic…

This doesn’t take into account risk factors, so your odds of dying by someone shooting you are probably a lot lower, and I’m not sure if they consider suicide as a death by firearm assault. Bottom line is that if you aren’t involved in dangerous things like the drug trade or other illegal activities, chances are nothing will happen to you. Sadly, most of these deaths are inter city youths or by someone who already knows the person they are killing (like in this instance).

That being said, we are long overdue for some kind of action in this country on guns, and the correct answer isn’t more guns. I saw an article while doing a Google search for those stats and it said that you are as likely to be killed by a falling object in Germany as you are by a gun. Yet here the rate is the same as a car crash. There is just no reason for it.

TheRealBicycleBuck > 190octane
06/02/2016 at 08:23

Perhaps you should take a closer look at the numbers in your reference. Three times as many people are killed in automobile crashes as are killed by firearms. In the U.S., the one-year risk of death by auto is 1:8,938 while by firearm is 1:28,208. While it is difficult to reduce your exposure to death by auto, it’s pretty easy to reduce your exposure to death by firearm. Just avoid the places where it is most likely to happen.

If you are going to go after firearms, aim for the ones most likely to be used against another person - handguns. From 2007 to 2011, 71% of murders by firearms were committed with handguns ( source ).

If you really care about saving lives, all of these things kill more people than cars and firearms combined:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

190octane > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/02/2016 at 09:59

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Number of deaths: 33,804

Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.7

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Number of deaths: 33,636

Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.6

The point stands that a gun is just as likely to kill you in this country as is a motor vehicle accident. I did point out in the original post that the chances of being killed by a random shooting are extremely slim if you aren’t in the inner city, and still very slim if you are.

In general though, you can't ignore suicide in gun deaths because I think that most people who are planning suicide don't go out and buy a gun but they use one they already have.

TheRealBicycleBuck > 190octane
06/02/2016 at 11:54

I see you like to mix and match your statistics to make your point. I don’t think it is correct to lump suicides in with murders. That seems a bit disingenuous. Let’s just take a closer look at suicides (data from 2013, source ) to understand why.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Number of deaths: 41,149

Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.0

Cause of death rank: 10

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Number of deaths: 21,175

Deaths per 100,000 population: 6.7

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Number of deaths: 10,062

Deaths per 100,000 population: 3.2

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Number of deaths: 6,637

Deaths per 100,000 population: 2.1

Would you look at that?!? You are more likely to kill yourself than die by motor vehicle or by being murdered, even if you lump suicides in with the murders.

I think homicides and suicides should be kept separate because there is a clear difference in intent. A person willing to commit suicide is going to attempt it whether they have access to a gun or not. The difference is how successful they may be.

The biggest problem with all of the numbers we have seen so far is that they represent a lifetime risk and are not age-adjusted. Accidents (including motor vehicle crashes) are the leading cause of death ( source ) from ages 15 to 34 and with homicide and suicide (with ALL weapon types) being roughly 1/3 of those numbers. Let’s break it down by age group and calculate the rates for the topics you are most concerned about (full disclosure here - I used 2013 population numbers and 2014 death rates , but it should be close enough). All numbers are per 100,000 population.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

The numbers don’t exactly match but the errors may lie in the difference in years and the difference in reporting agencies (census, CDC, iii). So,if you are going to jump on the gun control bandwagon, I suggest you focus on the 15 to 44 age group and you focus on handguns per my previous post. By the way, the Washington Examiner did an article on why discussing all gun deaths (including homicide, suicide, and accidental) is a bait-and-switch tactic when discussing gun control.

If your goal is to save lives , the world would be better served if you focused on suicide intervention and preventing accidents.

190octane > TheRealBicycleBuck
06/02/2016 at 12:41

Is anything I said factually incorrect?

I will ask you these questions...

1. Are you comfortable with the murder rate in this country being 2x-3x higher than almost every other 1st world country?

2. If guns are used in 67% of these murders and our murder rate is 3.8 per 100k, that means that guns are used in around 2.54 per 100k of our murders. Shockingly, if you subtract that 2.54 from the 3.8, the 1.3 per 100k that are left puts us right there with the other 1st world countries that have much stricter gun control laws. So do you think that’s just a coincidence or there might be a correlation there?

3. In order to drive a vehicle, you have to pass a test and get a license... I'm sure the death rate from vehicles would be a lot higher without these laws in place. Also, cars have never been safer and had more features to prevent accidents than they do now. Why shouldn't someone have to have a gun license or safety features for a gun? Before you answer with the 2nd amendment says you have a right to have a gun, there are plenty of people who aren't allowed to have guns, and there are certain types of guns you can't own, so there is already a precedent for restrictions to the 2nd amendment.

TheRealBicycleBuck > 190octane
06/02/2016 at 14:45

“Is anything I said factually incorrect?”

It’s not the numbers themselves, its the assumptions behind the numbers that are the problem. By lumping together numbers for both homicide and suicide, you inflate the perceived need for gun control. You already admitted the risks of being impacted by gun violence are very low, so the only reason for conflating the numbers is to justify controlling something which scares you.

“1. Are you comfortable with the murder rate in this country being 2x-3x higher than almost every other 1st world country?”

Again, the misdirection! The numbers that are bandied about by gun control advocates are being manipulated by vague definitions of “1st world” and “developed” countries. Why don’t you try comparing countries that are similar based on a more unbiased metric like the U.N.’s Human Development Index ? When you compare the U.S. to countries with similar HDI characteristics, the amount of gun violence in the U.S. looks low . While you are busy reading the results of that analysis, don’t forget to read the section where they dis-aggregate the data even more and show how states where it is legal to purchase and own guns have homicide rates even lower than comparable countries.

How about asking a question that is a little less biased and more realistic? How about asking how I feel about living in a country where the homicide rate is 0.005%? Yeah, I’m ok with that. I have participated in much riskier activities like hang gliding, riding a motorcycle, cycling, canoeing, and - dare I say it - driving a car.

“2. ... So do you think that’s just a coincidence or there might be a correlation there?”

This is another case of using the wrong common denominator. Go back and run the numbers for similar HDI countries.

“3. In order to drive a vehicle, you have to pass a test and get a license... Why shouldn’t someone have to have a gun license or safety features for a gun?”

Aha! Another instance of hand waving to try to distract from the real problem! When you dis-aggregate homicides and suicides, you see that while gun ownership has increased over 50% since 2003, homicides by firearm have gone down by 49%. The data out there doesn’t tell us whether the homicides were committed by people who legally owned and carried their weapons, but one thing should be noted: any time someone uses a firearm in the commission of a crime, the possession of that weapon becomes illegal.

The data does tell us something about other weapons used to kill people. Let’s start by separating handguns and long guns (shotguns and rifles, include “assault” rifles). In 2014, handguns were used 11 times more often than long guns in homicides. Knives were used three times as often as long guns. Blunt objects like bats and hammers were used just as often as long guns. The most surprising to me was that “personal” weapons - fists and feet - were used to kill more people than long guns.

You contend that more laws will help the situation. The numbers don’t back your position ( source ).

“Eight of the 10 states with the highest homicide rates and eight of the 10 states with the lowest homicide rates all got “D” or “F” grades from the Brady Campaign analysis.”

You should also note that other factors may be the primary reason for gun violence:

“The poverty rate in eight of the 10 states with the most gun violence was above the national rate of 15.8%. Mississippi, New Mexico, Louisiana, and Arkansas, the states with the four highest poverty rates in the country, were among the states with the most gun violence.”

Once you put it all together, it becomes fairly clear that the risk of death due to gun violence is pretty low, even in the highest-risk groups ( 0.006% in 15-34 year olds); the group most at risk are young men; it is clear that there are strong correlations between homicides and poverty; and laws restricting access to firearms have had little effect.

All of this points to a need to fix a common root cause. Quit focusing on treating the symptoms. Your time and energy would be better spent on correcting the source of the problem - poverty.